It is almost 12.30 in the morning and I have to get up for work in a few hours. But this post has been brewing in my heart all day and so I am forsaking sleep for writing (at least it is not for t.v.)
On the fourth of July, while everyone else was barbequing and watching the fireworks, my family and I planned to return to the Twin Cities after spending the entire weekend in Milwaukee. And my mother, the Joyce Meyer fan that she is turned on the television as we packed our bags and other things, wanting to watch the latest broadcast. I must confess I am not the avid fan of Joyce Meyer that she is. I think she is doing a wonderful job ministering to the needs of other people who really need to hear the Word, but she is not really my favorite cup of tea.
Acquiescing to my mother’s desires, we watched the broadcast. And as soon as she left to run a quick errand, I turned it off absolutely disgusted with what I was hearing. The guest speaker for the day was none other than Joyce Meyer’s husband Dave. I had never heard him speak before so was initially intrigued but as he started to unpack his message I felt like he was trying to sell me a gospel based on American ideals and principles rather than the Word of God.
He started by sharing this ideal for us as Christians to regain this godly heritage of our nation that we have somehow forsaken. In the first few minutes, the speaker (and Joyce Meyer) makes clear that they are not talking about politics but ‘our godly heritage and how to preserve that.’ I must ask what heritage do they want to preserve? The heritage that landed tons of African slaves on plantains toiling generation after generation with nothing to show for but broken families and cultural dynamics? Or how about the heritage that pits the poor (regardless of color) against each other so that the rich can grow richer and exploit resources from those who are already disenfranchised including Native Americans, Mexicans, and Africans just to name a few. I get this whole piece that America was founded upon biblical ideals and maybe this was supposed to be the goal. But in my estimation we have always fallen short of it based on our ill treatment of one another. So again, I must ask, what heritage are we trying to restore?
A few minutes later he moves on to talking about how our country has become very materialistic, which I whole heartily agree. We are a consumer-driven culture and have structured our economy in such a way that the only way it prospers is if we spend, spend, spend. However, I ask, albeit cautiously, is this something that he can really speak to? I am not trying to step on anybody’s toes here, but I just want to throw it out there, is there an element of hypocrisy here as you talk about our need to trim back when perhaps you and your family has not? I am not trying to attack, believe me, but as a minister of the Word of God, you must be held accountable for your words that you deliver to the people.
I bring this point up only because I believe that it feeds into another comment that Dave Meyer’s makes about this entitlement mentality that has arisen since the Great Depression era where the government takes care of the people. He contrasts this to how it was prior to this when the church stepped in to provide for the needs of the people, and suggests that we need to get back to this place. For him, the government’s provision has made people lazy, refusing to work when they could still get something for free. I acknowledge the fact that there are definitely people who exploit the system but there are also people who need it, depend on it as a result of death in the family, illness, unemployment, and the like. I understand that the church should step up and provide, and I actually admonish us to do so, but I must also declare that it is the government’s responsibility to consider and respond to the needs of its citizens instead of giving preferential treatment to those who make the most money and have the most resources.
With this, I ask why does he only attack the poor here or at least those who are relying on government resources to get by? Why does not he address those who are getting richer by taking from the already poor and downtrodden? Why does not he go after the CEO who bankrupted their company and still walked away with millions of dollars in bonuses? Why does not he go after corporations and businesses who get by without paying their taxes year after year, who pay their workers meagerly wages, who refuse to hire more workers so they do not have to pay health insurance? Why does not he go after these? Why does not he go after the top 2% of American income earners who are not paying the same tax rate as everyone else because they feel ‘entitled’ to keep it all to themselves?
I believe the reason that he does not go after these, and the reason to attack those who barely make enough to get by, is because it is politically motivated. Why would he attack the government in this particular moment if it was anything but that? But so as to prove that I am not being harsh here, he goes on to equate the idea of our country being a republic with godliness, and the idea of our country being a democracy to anything but, and follows this up with telling people how they should vote, saying that this nation, and especially the church, needs to make sure that we are not voting people in who are promising to bless us, but those who are operating under godly principles. I have so many problems with these few ideas here. For starters, I have yet to see a political candidate in either party who operates on godly principles. Each of them have their vested interests, and ideas, and though they may profess to be Christian in name, many are so far away from the heart of God. Secondly, every candidate has promised to bless in someone way-some with jobs, some with restoring the economy, some with protecting our country. There is nothing evil about blessing in and of itself- it is how we use that blessing that becomes the problem. Thirdly, it is absolutely immoral to stand up in the pulpit and persuade thousands if not millions of people on how they should vote. So many people listen to Joyce Meyer’s broadcast in this nation and around the world, and to use that platform to influence so many people is just plain out wrong.
At this point, I could no longer stand what he was saying and had to turn off the television. Perhaps Dave Meyer redeemed himself by the end of the message, but I did not stick around to find out. I spent the better part of the next 20 or so minutes venting to my husband about everything that was absolutely wrong with his message, a message that seemed to lack biblical roots but was instead rooted in American ideals of prosperity, nationalism, and greed. The reason I am so upset is because at the heart of his message was the desire to eradicate or at least reduce, programs that help out the poor in our country. For so long throughout our American history, these people have been ignored and neglected. Church handouts, if they hand out, are often insufficient and are based on the goodwill of the people, and what is going on in their bank account. There are so many hungry children, and people in general, in our nation who cannot depend on the goodwill of the people, they need justice, and they need it now, and it does not matter to God where it comes from, so long as it comes!
23 thoughts on “My Response to Dave Meyer”
I HEART this message! Preach it girl! muah!
Ebony you hit the nail on the head. I have always been turned off by preacher who use their privileged position to sway votes. I believe the bible give us, christians the free will to choose; choose this day whom you will serve. the bible gives us to choose between life and death, so when I hear preachers say vote this, it rubs me the wrong way. Thanks for a great article. Kudos
Thanks for your insight and feedback Bode. I appreciate it. I, too, am not a fan of clergy using their position to persuade people how they should vote. But you already knew that 🙂
did I mention I am a HUGE Joyce Meyer fan? lol. I think she is a gifted woman, but I totally agree with your article.
I am a bit depressed today and I am wondering whether I have recently put Joyce in a higher place than God. For the last months I have supported her whole heartedly as she has spoken the word that I felt has strengthened me alot! Today I religiously went to her site for help like I usually do and heard Dave. I have come to the conclusion that education is important in everything. The only way you can short cut is if God has ordained you to do one particular thing. I felt somewhat violated as I remembered how my pastor supported Bush and how I too was behind him in attacking Iraq. Now we know better – God was not involved. I am in despair as I feel that I CAN NO LONGER LISTEN TO JOYCE MEYER. IT BREAKS MY HEART BUT I CANNOT DO IT after listening to Dave Meyer whom she has always praised as the better person than she is.
Hi Shelia, thank you for sharing your feelings with me. Yes, it is true that we can sometimes place pastors and other church leaders higher than God in our lives. In your moment of despair, I encourage you to turn to the Word of God and allow Him to speak to your heart. He loves you so much and wants you to delight in Him. I would also encourage you to talk about your pain with others, a trusted Christian friend or counselor. Sometimes when we isolate ourselves and keep silent about what we are going through, we can do more harm than good. And I still do believe that Joyce Meyer’s ministry is a good resource, she is touching the lives of many through her preaching and teaching. As I mentioned above, we just have to be careful not to exalt them over God and to also learn to think for ourselves. Is what they are saying in line with what God is saying not what the culture is saying? If not, then we must reevaluate our commitment to how we will allow them to speak into our lives.
If you dont love this country I suggest you leave it. We dont need or want you here anyway!
Hello Jeanette. Thank you for your comments, albeit very negative, I think that they get at some of what I am saying in this blog post. Trust and believe, that I love this country. But sometimes love allows you to look at the things that are grievances and advocate for change. I would be remiss to look at all of the hatred, violence, and racism that goes on here and not say anything. That would not be love, that would be hate. Fortunately, Christ, though he loved us, looked at the mess we were in and said/ did something about it. I am so glad he did not shut up about my sin, but took it with him to the cross.
Amen! I turned it off, too. Republicanism does NOT equal godliness. Just look at their track record of selfishness and greed. Really disappointed in Dave Meyer for his ridiculous tirade.
My comment is quite simple. Do what you feel is right and what the Bible has taught us. I think Dave Meyer speaks my opinion 100%. I am so blessed to have a Christian annointed to speak the rights and beliefs that I have in my heart for our country.
I want you here. In the post-election melt down, I am questioning my support of Joyce Meyer through purchasing products. And of Joel Osteen, Robert Morris, and other Megachurch pastors. I’m starting to sense that the “sermonette” format is purposely designed to illicit a specific response from me by triggering a need and promising fulfillment through a product as a conduit to the real things I want, grace, a sense of connection, peace. Thank you for speaking your mind.
Wow just wow!!! Just went to hear Meyer today & was quite shocked over her busband’s talk. All about bringing the country together but the words were very divisive. Just stumbled across your post & am here to say it’s still spot on.
Thank you so much for this awesome opinion. Fortunately, there are many America s who do not agree with what he has verbalized and thou it may take years to undo the damage caused by irresponsible rhetoric, that day will come.
I have followed this Ministry for years. I knew her husband held beliefs that were contrary to mine;however, I tried to put that aside as her teachings helped me so much. Now it is crystal clear that I will no longer follow a ministry that seems to want to MAGA …code for MAWA!!
Shame on you Dave Meyer. Shame on you. 😞
That’s a shame!! I was raised Jehovahs’ Witness and I don’t really attend the meetings anymore. This is a church that relies only on the donations that are put in donation boxes located in a couple of spot in the church itself. You don’t have to give a specific amount. The pastors or elders as we call them live very simple even if they have money from other resources. Recently I’ve been listening to Joyce because I think she helps me think about everyday situations and some really relate to me I am in a spiritual stalemate right now. Recently I have wondering about her net worth and what kind of house she lives and and does she really give the money to help people but we all know she has to have money too. I did read a few things I didnt really agree with but for the all of it, I think she is pretty generous and loves God for the most part doing good.In the religion I was raised up in we didn’t vote period because we believed in Gods’ government and not mans’. Being christian I believe Jesus died for all our sins not just the ones certain religions pick and choose that is what mostly drove me away.
Kelley, These people are what I refer to as God Frauds. Look into the material things they all have. The antiques Joyce collects, the car Dave drives. The compound they live on.
I was abused as a little girl til I was 15. I would never use that to make people feel sorry for me. Did you know they have upward 9 plus atm machines outside their conferences??!!
Their God is a profitable God. This is the God that supports Donald Trump.
If it wasn’t so, so sad, it would be laughable.
Dave is quite the talker. Joyce makes valid points but they mean nothing but lining their couffers. Check out the material things Joyce has. Using Heavenly Father in such a way is an abomination.
Thank you for the information. I was searching to determine if Joyce was a Trump supporter. I guess I have my answer! This saddens me…
I am not sure whether or not she is. I wrote this post years ago and am not sure where she or her husband stand on political matters today. I can guess that based on what I previously wrote that it is a strong possibility and also know that there has been some push back among Evangelicals like John Piper about 45. Emphasis on *some.* I want to be fair and also not be naive to think that such support is possible. But unless she confesses or voices that support, I don’t want to attach her to that label.
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I am a committed Jesus lover as a result of a powerful conversion experience. Have loved and trusted Jesus for decades. However, my love for Jesus is not embedded in political beliefs. Joyce Meyer is a wonderful teacher: not many like her. However, there is a curious penchant for United States’ preachers who seem to ignore Jesus’ words to, “Give to Cesar what is Cesar’s, and God what is God’s” (Rom. 13:1). This only happens in the United States. Most Christians everywhere else in the world have made the separation. Perhaps this is due to the birth of this nation through religious settlers. This is fabulous in my ways, but it also leads to a religiosity that clouds political views. Jesus was clear in explaining that godliness is reflected in loving God and loving others. Not by voting on political issues; be it abortion, homosexuality, and so on. Many of these issues have become the priority, almost to obliterating the fact that Jesus is neither a Republican or a Democrat. Ludicrous belief!!!!! Right now, Republicans are behaving in such an embarrassing that I have dsitanced myself from many. Jesus would not act this way……Telling lies, misrepresentations of facts, disrespectful comments about women and those who oppose Republican thought. A praying President would not grab women ………, would not be thrice married, would not call a black female a dog, consider the economy (gold) the gauge for his success, treat immigrants as subhuman whether documented or not, manipulate his position to suit his will, and certainly not treat the White House and the Constitution as if it should bow to him. Trump is the antithesis of everything that is Christian. Yet, many fundamentalists love to be controlled and told what to do. I am not saying that there is no need to have common sense ways to manage a diverse society. This is why we elect governments. We do not elect governments to create a Theocracy. This will happen at the end of the ages. In the meantime America had better maintain its image as a beacon, calling, “The huddled masses, the downtrodden…….” There is room for all, but humanity as it worst does not want to be inconvenienced or feel that they will lose everything they have hoarded.” God’s blessing is more likely to be withheld from becoming so proud than by voting according to abortion or gay issues……..I love United States but feel deeply troubled by the wicked man, Trump, being so adored by believers. Even the elect can be deceived. We are there!
Thank you as a Christian for speaking up on this subject. This needs to be said. We left the last church because of the type of message Dave Meyer is pushing.
Wow I thought this was recently written. Hits way too close to home with the current climate. I cannot believe people are blind to this disgrace. I changed my party as soon as I could after this monster was elected